Curse

Rhamia Darigaz · May 06, 2009, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by wtfisgoingon

what is the point of introducing the sin?

to sell factions. other than that they're a broken and unnecessary class that doesn't fit into a game where all of the roles are already covered by, and all the mechanics balanced around, the 6 core professions.

wtfisgoingon · May 06, 2009, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

to sell factions. other than that they're a broken and unnecessary class that doesn't fit into a game where all of the roles are already covered by, and all the mechanics balanced around, the 6 core professions.

anet is actually just balancing the mechanics around what the top gvg players doing with their matches...
assassins CAN have part in the gvg system if only if anet would put a halt to adapting to the top gvg players' ideas and style of play...
since there are less top gvg core sin players around.

Keekles · May 06, 2009, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Actually, moriz knows what he's talking about. You've done nothing to address moriz' arguments, other than using straw-man and red herring fallacies.

Try again.

paddymew · May 06, 2009, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Lore reason for introducing sins: Guild Wars needed ninjas. 'Nuff said.

Gameplay reason for introducing sins: Guild Wars needed a more offensive-minded, but also more fragile, melee class for burst damage. If every melee class is a tank, every melee will die to casters.

Regarding use of shadowstepping: If ANet made shadowstepping exclusive to sins (in PvP), it would ruin the game. For example, besides being used offensively, monks in PvP these days are either /W for /A. Nobody would spec /A unless they needed dash if shadowstepping was made sin-only.

Regarding OP: It seems to me like the only thing you know about arguing is to fail while trying to badmouth people who prove that you are wrong. If any troll posts were made, they were indeed yours, and not the logical arguments other people posted.

EDIT: About posting guild information etc. on one's profile page: It's perfectly natural. Nobody wants to be e-stalked (at least not on Guru...). Just because you don't like to show the world who you are in-game, or IRL for that matter, doesn't mean that everybody else is a loser with no life...

xDusT II · May 06, 2009, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by wtfisgoingon

anet is actually just balancing the mechanics around what the top gvg players doing with their matches...
assassins CAN have part in the gvg system if only if anet would put a halt to adapting to the top gvg players' ideas and style of play...
since there are less top gvg core sin players around.

Your right! What were Arenanet thinking when they decided PvP balance should be centred around high-end GvG!

Celeborn10 · May 06, 2009, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by wtfisgoingon

the thread is about shadowstepping being revived back to assassins and why anet has made shadowstepping useless to sins and why are they attempting to re-make sins' play style into the typical GvG warrior play style.

you are trying to troll on my thread trying to make discussions outside of the topic.
im not going to go into a discussion with you about skills and all that bullcrap.
that is not relevant.

congrats for absolutely nothing you've contributed to the thread except making yourself look like a troll.

Oh no! The horror! Assassin's have to do without their hilariously broken mechanic and focus on actual positioning and standard melee rules. Is there anything bad if Anet were to make Assassins into a more robust, intelligent-to-play class?

If Anet were to bring the Assassin's interrupting and disabling ability more on par with Ranger's that could be a step in the right direction. But unfortunately there's very little for improvement that wouldn't bring about any more unbalanced gameplay. Oh and Guildwars is supposed to be all about player skill and intelligent and optimal use of a skill bar.

A Shockaxe is only as good as the player using it. Conversely there's a disproportionately low skill needed to play an Assassin effectively. A better player on Shockaxe can have more of an impact than if they played a typical PvX Assassin build to perfection. I really don't see any reason why the more skillful playstyle shouldn't merit better results. (unless you want to show off FoW armor on your Assassin?)

Shadowsteps in their current form aren't completely useless. If ganking was still as essential as it used to be AoD would still be king. Death's Charge would still disregard height obstructions. It wasn't completely the fault of the necessary nerfs that Assassins fell from favor. Alot of it was decided by the meta-game.

Lux Aeterna · May 06, 2009, 06:01 AM // 06:01

With aftercasts, shadowsteps are good but not overpowered.

What exactly are you complaining about ?

Personally I like [death's charge], but the 3/4s aftercast combined with 30sec recharge make it if anything a bit weak.

Shadowsteps are not broken, they add depth and interest because teleports = cool and instant movement = strong. In their current form they're actually underpowered.

Are you saying that GvG needs squishie 1234 frontliners?

Capulatio · May 06, 2009, 06:22 AM // 06:22

I completely disagree here, the shadow step is what makes the assassin an assassin.

The question is, to all of you that are complaining, do you want a warrior or an assassin?

Forgotton200 · May 06, 2009, 06:44 AM // 06:44

How is assassin in AB?

dasmitchies · May 06, 2009, 06:46 AM // 06:46

The nerf to shadowsteps was done to prevent warriors and dervishes from using shadowstep spikes with high damage weapons. (hammers, scythes) Daggers are worthless without the use of a skill chain however, as long as Sins can use an axe, hammer or scythe builds shadowstepping MUST be nerfed for pvp at any level. A crit-scythe spiker would instantly dominate melee presence in any pvp thereafter. The best that can be hoped for is to undo the nerf for pve but then what is the point there? Nobody would ever use a skill slot in PVE for a step.

M1EK · May 06, 2009, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by wtfisgoingon

looks like you were tempted and couldnt resist not to reply, hehe. welcome
back

your reply about shadowstep being broken isnt a successful viable argument.

how is it broken?
if you are going to say, it requires no skill, requires no battlefield awareness, and monks not being able to pre-prot.

scroll back up, because i've already replied to those arguments, which is why i've said the ''positioning'' argument is unsuccessful and absurd.

the only argument i find actually viable in this thread is from Hawk
''123 combo chain being inferior, unable to fake spikes etc.''

but, not like its intended for assassins to ''fake'' spikes anyway...

You didn't destroy my argument, you simply said "your argument makes no sense."

drunknzelda · May 06, 2009, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Uh.. it's not like you never see any Sins in high-end GvG. Ever heard of Wastrels Collapse + MB Split? Imo they gave sins a really good shadowstep when they buffed WC since it has no aftercast and it does KD which makes for an easy chain start. Also, cookiespike uses an A/P instead of the regular W/A. Assa's are here for different reasons, and they should never be able to do pressure like a warrior can, since that is just stupid (i.e. Palm Strike, not the same pressure but still, they tried to give sins pressure). Oh, and most balanced HA builds have PS sins too so.. never see Sins in high-end PvP? I do sir.

newbie_of_doom · May 06, 2009, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXDragonorFuryXx

i just ordered factions so i wouldnt know but assassins arent aloud in guild versus guild?

that sucks

I lol'd.

And to be honest, shadowsteps are still pretty useful if you are splitting because they increase mobillity and speed.
They simply cannot be used for spiking anymore, which is a good thing.

moriz · May 06, 2009, 07:20 AM // 07:20

WC does have aftercast, but is it completely irrelevant because the target would be KD'd and can't run away anyways.

Quote:

How is assassin in AB?

as powerful as ever.

tasha · May 06, 2009, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by wtfisgoingon

shadowsteps are not broken because it is just a new style implemented for the sin, and should only be unique to sins.

Given that the movement provided by shadow step is a game function (and therefore will happen whenever someone uses an appropriate skill), and that all primary professions can use all skills from all other professions, regardless of their effectiveness, how do you propose that ANet goes about implementing the restriction on shadow step so that it only affects Sins? Or perhaps, if you prefer, how would an Assassin trigger a shadow step if not on a skill that all other professions could use?

Furthermore, how does changing their primary attribute to include a game function as well as a profession bonus - a) bring the profession to a more GvG/high end PvP viable level (considering Sins already have the ability to shadow step and are not included in most meta builds)? b) maintain balance throughout the game?

Shasgaliel · May 06, 2009, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Another discussion which turned into flame wars for no reason..... I wonder why people start discussion when they cannot deal with the possibility that someone can disagree with them. I do not get the idea of personal attacks - it does not bring any power but to the contrary it indicates that there is no more arguments left.

Anyway back on topic. I am not a pvp player but I think I can add something from external perspective. I tried pvp on various chars and sucked. But the point is when I used the sin with shadowstep I did not need to worry about positioning etc. I did not have to look around. Just go for called target and use combo.... you can say it is more than that but my answer would be no. It almost always worked so I did not have to bother, I often did not look who is around. My point is that using sins or actually whatever with shadowsteps reduces the ability to learn pvp. People do not learn situation awareness they do not look around, they do not try to anticipate anything. When playing warrior I really needed to put an effort to it. I learned a lot. But with shadowstepping sin - nothing. I guess that might the argument - that it allowed too many people play easy way in high end pvp where their place should be RA. I am not saying it to all the sins but to the ones like me who are mainly pve ones.

KrisNaga · May 06, 2009, 09:04 AM // 09:04

The only thing anet are doing by nerfing builds and removing skills is alienating the players and when you have guild wars 2 coming out then it's a stupid move to play.
I don't see why they can't just leave the damn skills alone, there's no need to constantly alter them all the time, it's a pain in the ass and by nerfing good farming and pvp builds then I think there's a good chance that people who would of bought GW2 will buy something else instead so they don't have to put up with constant nerfing.

Sarevok Thordin · May 06, 2009, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrisNaga

The only thing anet are doing by nerfing builds and removing skills is alienating the players and when you have guild wars 2 coming out then it's a stupid move to play.
I don't see why they can't just leave the damn skills alone, there's no need to constantly alter them all the time, it's a pain in the ass and by nerfing good farming and pvp builds then I think there's a good chance that people who would of bought GW2 will buy something else instead so they don't have to put up with constant nerfing.

It's called Balance, if they followed the mindset of leaving skills alone HA would STILL be infested with the first sordid incarnation of IWAY.

.......which......might......not.....be........far .....from the truth but that's not the point.

zwei2stein · May 06, 2009, 10:27 AM // 10:27

All shaddowsteps need to ever have hope of buff is susceptibility to widespread, easy to bring, counter.

Shaddowstep skill need to fail if user is snared.

kedde · May 06, 2009, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Offensive shadowsteps are retarded because they ignore positioning.
Defensive ones are better designed and at least provide fun for the user.

They're a bad concept mechanic wise and should not be in the game for balance reasons.